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Location problem

 
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Tonym



Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 91
Location: East Sussex

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Location problem Reply with quote

I have a record of L.Acw. Mary MacAskill, WAAF.
CWGC Certificate records her as buried in KINCARDINE CEMETERY, Ross and Cromarty

I also have Adam Brown's photograph of a war memorial on which she is commemorated - KINCARDINE & CROIK, Ardgay Sutherland

Forgive my Sassenach ignorance but is there any connection between these two locations or is one a CWGC blip?

Tony
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spoons



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 1788
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like most things in Scotland, it's both.

definitions from Wikipedia

"Ross and Cromarty (Ros agus Cromba in Gaelic) is a vaguely or variously defined area in the Highlands and Islands of Scotland. There is a registration county and a lieutenancy area in current use. Historically there has been a constituency of the Parliament of the United Kingdom (1832 to 1983), a local government county (1890 to 1975), a district of the Highland local government region (1975 to 1996) and a management area of the Highland Council (1996 to 2007). The local government county is now divided between two local government areas: the Highland area and Na h-Eileanan Siar (the Western Isles)."

and from the definition of Sutherland

"In 1975, under the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973, the county was divided between Caithness and Sutherland local government districts within the Highland region, with Tongue and Farr areas of the county of Sutherland becoming part of the Caithness district (which also included the area of the county of Caithness). Also, the Kincardine area of the county of Ross and Cromarty was merged into the new Sutherland district. Shortly after its creation, however the boundary between the districts of Sutherland and Caithness were redrawn to follow that between the counties."


and from somewhere else.

"Kincardine was a parish in the county of Ross and Cromarty, in Scotland. It was created in 1845 and abolished in 1975. It was part of Easter Ross; Ardgay Burgh; and Culrain Burgh. "

In short, both your descriptions are the same place and it is in Sutherland or Ross and Cromarty or both depending on the date and what type of border you are lookin at.

(I would be surprised if even those who lived there knew where they are Laughing )

A bit like where I am, the town is variously called Dalry, St John's Town of Dalry or The Auld Clachan of Dalry. It is in the Upper Glenkens, Glenkens, Stewartry (of Kirkcudbright), Kirkcudbrightshire and Dumfries and Galloway. Simple innit?

\Paul
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Tonym



Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 91
Location: East Sussex

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul

I am regretting that I asked the question. Under the circumstances I will leave Adam's photo and the CWGC Cert. together.

Tony
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apanderson



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 6909
Location: Stirlingshire

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,

You forgot 'the other' Kincardine - the one just across the River Forth from me! I suppose to give it it's proper name, it's really Kincardine-on-Forth but what's a few words between friends.

I didn't know there was another Kincardine so you're not alone Tony (and I've no excuse!!)

Anne Embarassed
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Adam Brown



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 722
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony

It can be quite confusing where boundaries have been redrawn over the years but the counties disappeared over thirty years ago so we use the current local authority boundaries for the war memorials. That means Ardgay (Kincardine parish) is in Sutherland and CWGC which uses scans of the 1960s registers places Kincardine in Ross & Cromarty.

Regards

Adam
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Tonym



Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 91
Location: East Sussex

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Adam

But it's playing havoc with the list I am trying to draw up of the Scottish Burial/Cremation & Memorial locations of all those unfortunate Scottish Lasses.

Tony
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spoons



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 1788
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For graveyards it seems sensible to use whatever CWGC has but for War Memorials I guess it could be more difficult.

Take for example a Great War memorial that had WW2 names added in say 1947 and further additions for other conflicts in 1971, 1982 and 1990. Which county/region etc should we list for this one memorial? It can only really be the current one can't it?
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Adam Brown



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 722
Location: Edinburgh

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spoons wrote:
Take for example a Great War memorial that had WW2 names added in say 1947 and further additions for other conflicts in 1971, 1982 and 1990. Which county/region etc should we list for this one memorial? It can only really be the current one can't it?


Spoons

That's my thinking, it has to be the most recent boundaries. If no names had been added to war memorials since 1975 then we could use the old boundaries but unfortunately there have been many names added in the past thirty years.

Tony

I've got a pretty good knowledge of Scottish local authority boundaries after doing the war memorials lists. If you've any doubts over a location then post a message here or drop me a PM.

Regards

Adam
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spoons



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 1788
Location: St John's Town of Dalry

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Genuki have a page of Scottish counties before and after the change and I found it quite interesting.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/index.html

then just scroll down to 2 clickable maps

\Paul
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